OGM Thursday, 2021-10-07

See Also

Zoom Chat

Gil Philip Friend

Who him?

Jerry Michalski

Bill Fenwick

Sherry Turkle: collaborative interruptions?

Pete Kaminski

https://twitter.com/STurkle/status/412844660994744320

We interrupt our experience to make a record of it. We don't experience interruption as disruption.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/opinion/the-documented-life.html

Stacey Druss

Is the Serious Conversations that you are speaking of, related to the FB group that Sam Hahn is an admin of?

Pete Kaminski

re communication styles, a tiktok about "coooperative overlapping" as a sign of engagement in some cultures, and terribly rude in others. https://www.tiktok.com/@gaydhdgoddess/video/6931518541917146374

"keep being in meetings where people try to avoid the strangeness"

Jerry Michalski

beat me to it!

What is to be done?

Gil, Mark, Stacey

Pete Kaminski

Johanne and I started watching "Chernobyl" on HBO recently, and climate change feels like the same kind of disaster and ignorance, just spread over decades rather than days and weeks.

Jerry Michalski

Chernobyl was fantastic. The series, not the incident.

Before European Hegemony: The World System A.D. 1250-1350 (1989)

life getting more complex

people living longer

<— things I disagree with

we’re living through a moment of punctuated equilibrium… sort of

Pete Kaminski

gotta surf the waves

Jerry Michalski

surf or drown… 🙂

Winston is great

someone has a machine that goes ping!

Pete Kaminski

"sharing of value"

Mark Carranza

the shock of the old: technology and global history since 1900, by David Edgerton

Pete Kaminski

"Four Pests campaign - Wikipedia" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign

the mosquitos responsible for malaria the rodents that spread the plague the pervasive airborne flies the sparrows—specifically the Eurasian tree sparrow—which ate grain seed and fruit

Jerry Michalski

discomfort is being expressed, it’s just being suppressed and not heard

Pete Kaminski

non sequitur: "Why was Facebook up in the first place?" https://twitter.com/caseyrosenthal/status/1445368928717484036

Jerry Michalski

does sensemaking include hearing people who are ignored?

escalation

backlash

Pete Kaminski

"Nigeria Confronts the Toxic Legacy of 60 Years of Abundant Oil" https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-niger-delta-oil-pollution/

Jerry Michalski

this one? Our Own Metaphor: A Personal Account of a Conference on the Effects of Conscious Purpose on Human Adaptation

Pete Kaminski

after months of picking up flotsam and trash on san diego beaches, johanne and i switched from saying "humans are terrible" to "some humans are (very) terrible"

Jerry Michalski

lawyer vs Chevron. Defund the Police

Gil Philip Friend

Structural Defects of Late Capital-ism [work in progress]

  • Accumulation without limit
  • Extraction without reciprocity
  • Alienation without care
  • Abstraction without ground
  • (Generation without regeneration)
  • Privatization without solidarity

Jerry Michalski

Stacey, Michael, John

are you just an antibody vacuuming machine?

it’s that talking cure again

Pete Kaminski

it's more fun to do things together. (it's more frustrating, too, but hey.)

Mark Carranza

self-patron, for a while, mutual patroning is where I'd like to go

Gil Philip Friend

what do the [raw] transcripts of these conversations look like?

@Pete i still suspect we would benefit with a gifted editor to cull and refine

doug

my stuff at douglasscarmichael.substack.com

Jerry Michalski

Michael, John, Marc

Pete Kaminski

@Gil, i don't disagree, but unless we are doing it ourselves in the first place, we are just being lazy and (i think) irresponsible in not doing it ourselves and getting better at it, together.

it's like kids playing in the living room, and expecting mom to pick up after them.

Gil Philip Friend

+1 doug

+1 pete

(i just suspect it’s a larger task than we can likely muster)

Jerry Michalski

it is a huge task, but it’s one we can approach in small ways

Trump Hacked the Media https://bra.in/9p6g9Q

Gil Philip Friend

ok then, let’s do!

Mark Carranza

the larger tribe of outrage

Stacey Druss

The right has also invested heavily in employing journalists and amplifying messages.

Jerry Michalski

so Gil, you’ve been exploring the collaborative book space, right? can we help expand/do that?

Stacey Druss

"journalists" not a good word in this case.

Gil Philip Friend

churnalists

yep

Jerry Michalski

John, Marc, Julian, Pete, me

Teen Vogue is amazingly good now and then

some of this is media literacy of the kind Howard Rheingold and Peeragogy are working on, like Crap Detection

Stacey Druss

I think the outrage is a distraction from powerlessness.

Jerry Michalski

totally

except it works at holding power, so they’re still holding power

oops! Doug, just noticed your hand up. will make room

Pete Kaminski

"Information mapping - Wikipedia" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_mapping

Jerry Michalski

Bob Horn https://bra.in/5vPg6J

info mapping https://bra.in/3jXKmy

Gil Philip Friend

is there a way to have the benefits of robocuration (feeding me things that it ‘knows’ i’d be interested, plus occasional random gifts) without the narrowing, rage-generating effects we see now?

Julian Gómez

One thing is that you’d need to remove the profit motive behind the robocuration.

Pete Kaminski

@Gil, Google is doing that pretty well for my on my Pixel phone

And not as well, but still interesting, ThreadHelper (Chrome plugin) is trying to do serendipity on Twitter: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/threadhelper/nfadnflafdfmekapgcgddbccooagpndk

Jerry Michalski

no topsy turvydom?

Pete Kaminski

here's the Google thing (it helps a lot that it stalks my Google searches): "Introducing Google Discover: Discover new information and inspiration with Search, no query required" https://blog.google/products/search/introducing-google-discover/ it produces a lot of boring items, but there are also a few gems, personalized for me. (i still prefer my Twitter stream for value and volume, but Google Discover adds a little signal to my life, too.)

Michael Grossman (he/him) Factr.com

@Gil, I’d say that it’s giving YOU hands-on control of your robocurator, based on YOUR incentives (which change: save time vs be entertained, focus vs be distracted), as opposed to the current norm of a 3rd party robocurator with economic interest in maintaining your attention.

Jerry Michalski

Marc, Julian, Pete, me

Michael Grossman (he/him) Factr.com

(The customer is you, not advertisers)

Marc Thibault

Nativien : A Model For The Amazon https://uplink.weforum.org/uplink/s/uplink-contribution/a012o00001pTf0dAAC/nativien

Gil Philip Friend

@Pete thanks re Discover. Should I ignore all the “abandon Chrome immediately” articles I’ve been seeing?

;-)

Pete Kaminski

@Gil, chacun à son goût ;-)

pick your poison, and unless you're eliminating everything digital, you're probably soaking in poison

Jerry Michalski

Trillion Tree Campaign: https://bra.in/7joyE5

Pete Kaminski

btw, a small side element of Neal Stephenson's "Fall; or, Dodge in Hell" is personalized, curated feeds. they cost money (and provide huge value), so rich people have great ones, and not-rich people don't. (Reading note, you have to read REAMDE before Fall. You don't have to read Fall, but if you like brain uploading, you might like it.)

Marc Thibault

Announcement https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/09/innovations-restoration-amazon-bioeconomy-ecopreneurs

www.1t.org the 1 trillion tree challenge

https://www.1t.org/

Gil Philip Friend

@Pete link?

Pete Kaminski

@Gil, for Fall, or REAMDE, or ?

Gil Philip Friend

yes

Pete Kaminski

they're just ("just") science fiction novels. amazon (pick your poison) or your library would work. I recommend starting with Seven Eves before either of those, or Diamond Age if you remember nanotechnology. I love about half of his books, and meh about the other half. Note that many people find him to write indulgently and overlong, which is either charming or annoying, depending on whether you like it. :-)

Gil Philip Friend

A local (Alameda) trees iniaitiatve https://www.100ktrees4humanity.com/about (I’m an advisor)

Mark Carranza

Gasoline thus has about 100 times the energy density of a lithium-ion battery

Pete Kaminski

What Alan Kay Thinks About The iPhone and Technology Now (2017-09-15)

(Neal Stephenson covers some of this territory as well in In the Beginning Was the Command Line, particularly in the sections The Interface Culture and Morlocks and Eloi at the Keyboard.)

Gil Philip Friend

@Mark: in the vehicle. what about whole-system? Do we know?

Jerry Michalski

Engelbart’s augmented (social) systems

Mark Carranza

@Gil Imagine we gotta look it up

Jerry Michalski

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

Gil Philip Friend

@Mark Quick search: there’s a lot on the topic, will take some sifting

Jerry Michalski

our Thursday reveries…

Gil Philip Friend

+1 Pete

Michael Grossman (he/him) Factr.com

Side note: Banana Republic is a weird but amazing example of how brand names become totally malleable nonsense words, ripe for redefinition. Clear descriptive names seem good in the short run, but are straitjackets in the long run.

Banana Republic might have called themselves the Multi-pocket Adventure Travel-wear Company (which is what they were, and why they chose the name—in a ‘70s ironic band-name way), but they would have hit a dead-end when people stopped wanted to dress like Indian Jones.

Jerry Michalski

nice! how you eat an elephant 🙂

Michael Grossman (he/him) Factr.com

Indiana

Pete Kaminski

output, rather than input/ingest

bits in - bits out -> bits through

Jerry Michalski

Polanyi: https://bra.in/9qZQrB

Pete Kaminski

"Laurie Anderson Has a Message for Us Humans - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/magazine/laurie-anderson.html

Michael Grossman (he/him) Factr.com

I really want to know what creature took that enormous bite out of Julian’s elephant. If that’s “one bite at a time”, we can make short work of all the imposing elephants in the room.

Gil Philip Friend

@Pete thank you.

Pete Kaminski

@Gil, thank you. :-)

Gil Philip Friend

Re balanced diet: i occasionally learn that when I, for example, exercise before diving into ‘work,’ the work goes better even if it takes place in ‘less available time’

Pete Kaminski

+1

slow is smooth, smooth is fast

Jerry Michalski

slowing down. the meta calls. the big fungus. floating ideas, waiting for people to step in and run. Mark and I do this automatically, wherever we participate. dilettantes? sweep the dojo. focus calls. alternate Thursdays?

Gil Philip Friend

More fundamentallly, I may assume to ‘paying work’ comes from work-seeking activities (ie, sales+marketing), when in fact my best paying work has come from thinking deeply, communicating actively, and letting the flow flow. Thanks for the reminder.

Pete Kaminski

Agreed. :-)

Gil Philip Friend

Is there a list of all the calls “we” do? {How many hours/week? ;-)

Pete Kaminski

probably not an updated one. the Trove calendar is a start

Gil Philip Friend

Obsidian is good at that name chaning

@Pete link? (again… :-}

Mark Carranza

Ha! Pattern language development in MassiveWiki is what I am into right now

Pete Kaminski

@Gil, https://www.catalist.network/explore-events ; there's some filtering and searching that you can do that might make it more what you want

Gil Philip Friend

@Pete TY

@Pete calendar is blank Sun-Weds every week

Pete Kaminski

i should make and share an Obisidian page (aka Massive Wiki page) of the calls i know of

Jerry Michalski

this Monica? https://bra.in/4jkXwZ

Pete Kaminski

Massive Wiki is still only weakly social, but we have aspirations of getting lots better; FedWiki is more social right now, but perhaps even a little more arcane than MW.

Jerry Michalski

practices

sweeping the dojo

posting things in the world


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